Wednesday, September 19, 2007

False enchantment can last a lifetime.

Somebody finally took the time to create an alt to send me hate mail in-game!

While it's largely blather in the vein of a frightened goose honking at something it doesn't understand, I concede that there's a valid challenge to my logic in there. Was Mongoose the wrong way to go for an enchant on my Felsteel Reaper?

First, consider that I'm using a 2H axe for dps. My rationale for that is as follows:

The majority of my damage comes from Raptor Strikes, which can only be done every six seconds, so I want to get as much as possible out of each Strike when the cooldown is up. With 2/2 points in the Savage Strikes talent, I have an extra 20% chance to crit on a Raptor Strike, in addition to the +170 damage it deals. The slower and heavier my weapon, the bigger those crits will be. That's very important when you consider that we're talking about my strongest attack.

So if I'm sticking with a 2H weapon for now, there's really only three solid enchants to choose from: Savagery (+70 AP), Major Agility (+35 agi), and Mongoose (+120 agi and attack speed...sometimes).

Disregarding Mongoose for the moment, I'm left to choose between 70 AP and 35 agi. rmlinden on Thottbot says it plainly: "Simply put Agility scales AP. Static AP doesnt." Consider what 35 agility (40.25, thanks to Lightning Reflexes) means to me as a hunter. More AP (40.25), more crit (0.96%), more armor (82), more dodge (1.64%). Dodges unlock Mongoose Bites, which are also subject to the 20% increased chance to crit from Savage Strikes. In turn, crits unlock Kill Command. The added chance to crit, Bite, and Kill represents a lot more damage than the additional flat 29.75 AP Savagery would provide over Major Agility. Major Agility wins.

So now it's between Major Agility and Mongoose.

Mongoose seems to be normalized at 1 PPM. Roughly once a minute I'm going to get +120 agi for 15 seconds. Averaged out over that one minute, that's four 15-second blocks of +30 agility. Looking at it that way, yes, that's inferior to +35 agi. I'm coming up 5 agi short.

Now comes the tricky part. The slower the weapon, the more often the Mongoose enchant will proc from instant attacks like Wing Clip and Counterattack.

My base chance to proc Mongoose is ((1 PPM * 3.4 weapon speed) / 60) = 5.67% chance per hit. That same 5.67% chance to proc also applies to my instant attacks, like Wing Clip. I've talked before about using Wing Clip to proc effects, and this is why. At least every two seconds, I'm hitting a special attack. If I haven't gotten off a Counterattack or a Mongoose Bite recently, I'll hit a Wing Clip. So at a minimum I'm doing 30 "bonus rolls" per minute for this proc, and I should be seeing a proc every 18 attacks or so. When you combine the base 1 PPM from my white damage with the additional chance from my special attacks, I'm actually averaging two (or more) Mongoose procs per minute, not one. That takes my minute's worth of four averaged-out 15-second blocks from 30 agility to 60, greatly exceeding Major Agility's 35.

Tl;dr -- Mongoose wins.


Axebeard said...

I think the fact that someone is that concerned by you is probably your greatest triumph yet.

You're theoretically damning an entire class by association. That's a serious achievement, sir.

Kakita Twinblade said...

Hello again.
Got a question.
I plan on using Mongoose on both of my weapons. Do ya know if it will proc off on off hand weapon?

Also, congrats on yer hate mail! Well, not really, but I'm glad yer making a stir.

And last thing. I went ahead and made a Blog of my own. Thanks for the inspiration :)

Anonymous said...

For personal DPS, a slow weapon should be your best bet, for the reasons you describe. The main downside is you'll get kill command less often, but you can get that with critical wing clips.

Mongoose is also generally the superior enchant. Even at 1 actual proc per minute you'll get 30 agi, close to the 35 otherwise, and extra procs are just gravy.

--A "normal" hunter

Gweryc Halfhand said...

@kakita: Grats on the start of your own blog! I'll be following along, as well as stealing all your good ideas. ;)

As for Mongoose, yes, it does stack if you're dual-wielding and both have mongoose. +240 agi sounds pretty sweet to me.

When you hit 70, I want a duel. I'm not a huge PvP fan, but if SwC is going to be host to two dedicated melee hunters, it would be criminal not to beat each other's faces in at least once.

Vermain said...

I'd love to see what your DPS is like with something like Despair. Might be a bit hard to get, though...

pelides said...

Gweryc, one hunter to another... you are my hero, man!

I've been reading the blog and I love it when someone does something completely the wrong way just for fun and to prove a point!

Anyone who says anything negative about the way you have chosen to play should be taken out behind the dugout and punched in the neck!

Through reading this, even though I personally would never play a melee hunter seriously, I have learned some cool little tricks.

I'm telling all of my hunters to head on over here and check this out for themselves.

You have a definite fan in me!

Anonymous said...

how you play the game is what is most important, too many people are too worried about what other people are doing, I wish more people would play for themselves and not criticize others

I have a good friend who loves his "melee" hunter (he does tend to shoot a bit, but loves going melee more) and swears by the survival tree, also seems to do fairly well with it, I'm going to point out your blog to him

glad to see someone doing with the game what they want to do :)

-a rogue

Mephane said...

I have had some whispered flames about myself (as a hunter) wearing a level 60 melee-only weapon (it has +str) with executioner enchanted, which obviously can't be overseen so easily. I usually explain that I have that weapon just for the fun of having it, and rather seldomly use it in combat. Everyone so far has accepted that and even found it funny, maybe it is just my server that is rather tolerant towards that kind if thing.

Hell, I did not even get flamed for wearing the Helboar Carving blade (level 61 green quest reward!) with int enchant just for the looks (katana with a blue glow) - even in heroic dungeons. Seldomly I get asked why I don't have a 'better' weapon, but everyone so far has totally accepted I am wearing that thing for pure style.

Though I am taking it all not so much to the extreme like you do (I would actually play a melee hunter if there were any halfway decent fighting staffs at level 70, both in terms of damage and looking like an actual fighting staff), I can totally understand why you are doing this, and I support it.

Let the powergamers flame as much as they want. It just makes me chuckle when people don't don't even grasp the concept of not just going for the maximum damage/healing/whatever.

Capn John said...

Dear Gawde.

The Scryers is an RP Server.



Feldragon said...

This is so awesome - you've essentially created the Beastmaster class. Your spec is perfect for what you're doing.. keep it up man!

As far as "Gawde" goes.. he can tell you what to do when he starts paying your subscription.

Aristride said...

You sir, have inspired me; through the concept of a melee hunter especially.I'm a fan of Tolkien's books, and as such, I think the perfect weapon for an elf would have to be a shiny sword, if not a bow and dual wielded daggers :P.

Also, I am one to be amused by mental images. The frightened goose made me smile on the inside.